>> i apologize. >> i'm not going to be treated like i'm strange here for this. >> no, no. he just smiled and stayed away from the topic entirely. so 2015, you're going alone or taking the family? >> that's all for us today. thanks for joining us at this the hour. >> "legal view" with ashleigh banfield starts right now. am i allowed to touch it? >> no! >> okay. his death was supposed to be quick and painless. unlike the teenage girl he shot and buried alive. but the legal injection went terribly wrong. pitting the debate over cruel and unusual punishment against those who say this needs to be discussed further. it is all in the cross hairs this hour. also ahead, florida neighbors under water. a foot of rain in a matter of hours turning streets into rivers, sending homeowners to their rooftops. hundreds being rescued. we've got the story.

and how can you fire the guy who owns the team? and then force him to sell it because of something he said in a secretly recorded conversation? as reprehensible as donald sterling's comments were, was revealing his private comments and then punishing him for them, was that the wrong call? hello, everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield. it is wednesday, april 30th. welcome to "legal view." it was supposed to be oklahoma's first double execution in 77 years. a final resolution to two horrible murders. and a hugely complicated legal fight. instead, the death row inmate on your right, charles warner, has a 14-day reprieve. in which he now can contemplate the ghastly and altogether bungle demise of the death row inmate on your left, clayton lockette, who went to the gurney right before he did. almost an hour after prison

doctors began giving lockette the first of three drugs that were supposed to kill him humanely, lockette instead felt ultimately died of a heart attack. let's be real clear about this. his death was a hell of a lot less cruel than his victim's death, a 19-year-old young woman whom he shot with a shotgun and then buried alive. but this is all very graphic proof of the problems facing states that can no longer get their drugs of choice for executions. and i do mean graphic. you may be disturbed by some of the descriptions in this report from cnn's pamela brown. >> he was struggling to talk but those were the words he got out, man, i'm not, and something's wrong. >> reporter: they may be the last words spoken by oklahoma inmate clayton lockette. uttered during his botched execution. lockette's vein exploded during the lethal injection, prompting authorities to quickly halt the procedure. >> it was my decision at that

time to stop the execution. >> reporter: the first drug, a lethal injection cocktail, supposed to render a person unconscious. witnesses say lockette was still conscious seven minutes after that first injection. at 16 minutes, he seemingly tried to get up and talk. it was then prison officials closed the blinds, shutting out the media gathered to witness. >> we didn't know what was happening on the other side of the blinds. we didn't know if he was still dying or if they were pumping drugs in him. >> reporter: 43 minutes after the first injection, lockette died. >> inmate suffereded what appears to be a massive heart attack and passed away. >> reporter: lockette and chairs wa charles inmate, both convicted of rape and murder, were at the center of the court fight over the drugs used in their execution. oklahoma's high courtish in al stayed their executions, only to lift those stays last week, saying the men had no right to know the source of the drugs intended to kill them. >> they wanted to hurry up and get it done with as little

transparency as possible. there should not be another execution in this state until there's a full investigation into what went wrong. >> now, as you probably know, there are usually many witnesses who watch these kinds of things actually play out. and reporter chelsea washington was one of them. she watched this. she's a cnn affiliate reporter from kokh. she was there for the whole botched execution. she joined me now on the phone. chelsea, just walk me through exactly what you saw and what it sounded like before the curtains were drawn and you could see nothing. >> hi, how are you? yes, the execution started at 6:23. that is when we first saw lockette. he was lying on a gurney, covered with a white sheet. you could already see the medicine was being pumped into his body. and then at 6:30, he was still conscious. again, a state official went over and checked his body and at 6:33, he was rendered unconscious. but he was still visibly moving.

his eyes were open. he was licking his lips. his legs were moving. it was very obvious that something was not going quite right. at 6:39, that is when they closed the curtain. it was obvious that things were just kind of falling apart. and at this point, he was moving his head from the gurney. he was moving his shoulders from the gurney. his legs were moving. and they're just having a very hard time gaining control. this is when they shut the curtain to the media because obviously whatever was happening was too traumatic for us to see. you had about 12 members of the media, 12 reporters. you also had lockette's lawyers and you also had a number of public officials there. now, behind us, there was a tinted window. from the tinted window, you could see maybe they were the victim's families. the mother and father of the person who lockette killed in

'99. >> tell me about the families and the reaction from them. i'm hearing reaction from lockette himself, gasping and saying, oh, man. what about the people watching the family members? >> they were behind us. there were tinted windows. you can't really see them. there was one woman i could see behind me and she just looked horrified. the sounds coming from lockette. i heard gasping. i heard oh, man. i heard him just trying to hang on for dear life. it was hard getting out the words that he was saying. it was very, very hard. because, again, there's a glass window that separates us from him. you know? >> and they typically keep families apart, families or supporters of lockette, perhaps his attorney. if this weren't any family members there. and then the family members of the victim, of the crime. were you able to assess re, ans from either of those camps? >> yes, i was able to talk to locket's lawyers. they were seated right in front

of me. name is david autrey and dean. when i spoke to david, he said the state was determined to do this, that this was botched, he was horrify and he was going to consider a lawsuit. the other attorney with him also echoed the same sentiment. >> chelsea washington from cnn affiliate, thank ou for that. my experts have a lot of opinions of what went wrong here and maybe what went right because there are many who feel that's exactly what that mean observed. mel robins is a defense attorney and cnn commentator. mark o'mara, i will begin with you. that last nugget i threw out there, some people thought this is entirely what he deserved. there was a handwritten statement handed out from the family members of a young woman murdered by this man. this was handed out and obviously written before the

botched execution. in part, it says stephanie was the joy of our life. we are thankful this day has finally arrived and justice will finally be served. mark, look, you've been in a lot of courtrooms, you've seen a lot of people who feel this wasn't even half of what the man deserved. is that wrong? >> well, for those people who went through the pain they went through, having their family member brutally murdered, i understand the retributions aspect of it. if you do a follow-up, as some studies have shown, most victims families, several years after the execution of the murderer of their family member, don't feel the same closure or anything. they don't really get it. what they find out is all they've really accomplished was two deaths. look, if this was a system where it was perfect and this was just a mistake or an accident, so be it. but this is just another example of how it is so difficult for us as a society to attempt to kill other people in our society

voluntarily. dying in prison, the rest of his life, i'm okay with that. but this is just another example of how we have to revisit not just how to kill somebody, but whether or not we really need to be a society that kills people in distant a time and connection as our appellate system requires it to be. >> let's remind everybody, we do have an eighth amendment. cruel and unusual punishment is not something we're allowed to meet out on people, even the worst of the worst. that's just simple, simple fact. mel robins, we've got 32 states that still have capital punishment on the books and are all too happy usually to use it. there are battles right now. right now, texas and florida are struggling with the kinds of drugs that you can get to do this because there's such a shortage. a lot of drug companies not wanting to supply the drugs. two others were just told by the supreme court, we're not going to look at your issues, we don't want to deal with this. is this going to be something that adds to these arguments in

courts of law? >> absolutely. >> a connection between this -- >> there's a supply issue. 87% of all of the capital murders, you know, that we've done here in the united states has been by lethal injection. now, starting in 2010, one of the three drugs that are used in the cocktail, it's the drug that actually turns off the breathing, has been next to impossible to find, because the u.s. manufacturer stopped making it in the u.s. they went to a factory in italy and italy said, hey, you're not making it here if you're ex-sporting it for executions. the eu has shut down exports of this drug. india has shut down exports of this drug. so we're facing a situation where we cannot get one of the ingredients to the cocktail that we know works. and what's terrifying about what's going on is there have been eight lethal injections in the united states this year. they've used four different untested cocktails in those

eight -- in those eight different executions. and so we're now in an era where because they can't get the drug, that they know that work, they're conducting ex-parent pe on people. we just saw one go horribly wrong. >> we had a heated debate. i wish we could have taped it. but effectively you said the irony of all this is death penalty opponents have put the kind of pressure on these drug companies, et cetera, that ultimately result in pain and suffering. >> absolutely. >> do you think the point here is not so much, oops, boy, was that a mistake or sometime, a few people have to suffer for the greater good. >> i think if we're going to have a death penalty in this country and the supreme court so far says it's legal, then let's administer is in a humane way. we should have a federal panel that comes up with a three-drug cocktail that can be used so that no pain is involved in the administration of death and make it available to the states. instead of allowing italy and the european union to determine

punishment policy in the united states -- >> you can't force other countries to do what you want. you can't even force companies in the united states to do what you want. where you getting off with this? >> basically, i think there's a hypocrisy to those who oppose the death penalty in that they in their opposition to these drugs and the use of these drugs are increasing the suffering of defendants who are put to death. why don't we have a responsible panel to come up with a good way to administer this? >> mark says that's absurd. just quickly, last thought. >> 147 people have been exonerated after they were given a death penalty. if we had a quicker death penalty, we would have killed at least 147 innocent people. $12 million to take somebody from arrest to execution. less than $1 million from arrest to then dying as a life sentence. why don't we just become a society that says nobody's going to kill, including us? it really doesn't work. there's no deterrent effect to it. we need to become a society that says, we are better than our worst people. we are judged on how we treat

our worst people. >> mark, it's a great argument, but that has nothing to do with what i'm saying, which is if you're going to have the death penalty, administer it humanely. >> if you're going to kill them, kill them right. maybe we just shouldn't kill them at all. >> as it turns out -- >> that's a different debate though. >> just this week, guys, just this week, we're learning from the proceedings of the national academy of sciences, a study that shows 4% of death row inmates are innocent. so if you're okay with killing the innocent for the greater good, then you can go ahead with those polls that show a lot of people really appreciate the death penalty in this country. i myself find it really difficult. i find that a very difficult argument to stomach. sit tight. thank you for that. sa in fact, sanjay gupta is going to join us to talk about those cocktails. we're going to all these places to mix them up and get a bunch of different cocktails and what that does and how it can go

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alabama, where you can see a man hang from a tree for dear life. we can report rescuers were able to get him a life jacket and pull him to safety. cnn meteorologist chad myers is in pensacola which has been inundated by an enormous amount of rain over 24 hours. give us the full report, chad. >> from little rock to tupelo to tuscaloosa and now pensacola, 24 inches of rain in 24 hours. i can't even imagine. five inches in one hour. in fact, governor rick scott is with me. a tough day for your state. we've had a lot of tough days across the southeast but this is one for you. >> we've got all this rain that's come, this flash flooding. we've had over 300 individuals evacuated from their homes. we still have more. still looks like we're going to have more rain. you can see the flooding behind us. areas that never flooded before. we brought high water vehicles

from national guard that are on their way here. we've got roads just devastated. what you really worry about is individuals. we have the animal shelters flooded. so you think about the animals. i mean this is devastating to this part of the state. we're going to stay here and make sure every sit step gets taken care of. we've got the national guard. fish and wildlife. we've got great local efforts. the sheriff's here. the mayors are here. we've got great emergency management teams all across the state. they're showing up. we have about 28,000 homes without power now. what you think about is those families still getting evacuate and if we have more water ways going to happen. >> the water does run downhill too. there are other places that haven't flooded yet. this water will go up in other spots. >> what's going to happen, not just the flooding we have now, we're get morgue rain, but now more rivers are going to flood and it's going further east. there are other parts of the state that will be impacted. the real devastation is in pensacola. what you really think about is

all those families being evacuated. and then how do they get their life back to order. people are being evacuated from attics. areas never flooded before. >> this sounds like what we saw in new orleans where people climbed into their attics to be safe and then they had to go through the roof to get out because the water didn't come down. water's receding a little bit. you've seen a little bit of this area. what else do you want to see? >> we'll be going over here to see some of the individual houses that have been flooded. there was just like -- just sank four feet in the water, just sank all a sudden. so we have to be very careful. every citizen has to be careful. don't drive into water. be careful of downed power lines. watch the weather. be careful of tornados. we've got to be careful. we're not past this yet. we're going to have more rain. we're going to have more flooding. the state of florida -- all the local elected officials, everybody's showing up and doing the right thing. >> ashley, know you're there.

do you have a question for governor scott? >> was he expecting this? does he feel as though they can do what they need now that the damage is done for so many people? >> we know there were flash flood warnings, flood emergencies. this even came on us, even to me, as a surprise. we thought all the moisture was going into alabama and mississippi and make tornado. it got cut off here, never went further. that gulf of mexico moisture came up here and then stop and rained and rained. it just never stopped for almost 24 hours. was there any way to predict anything you see back here? >> no, no one anticipated it would just keep raining and raining and raining. we never would have thought this would happen. we thought it was going to move out. 22, 24-plus inches of rain. i'm worried about those families. get them out of those homes. i want to thank all the volunteers that have shown up. everybody that worked all night to make sure these families are

safe. >> is there anything else you need? >> right now, we don't. we have a very good working relationship with fema. right now, the national guard, all the local efforts are working. we're going to keep making sure. we've got devastation in some of our roads. it's going to take a lot of transportation dollars to get that fixed. >> bridges, roads, gone this morning, ashleigh, here in pensacola. it really is a situation you can't put in your head. to think two feet of rain can fall in one day, in one place. that's more rain than they had katrina, ivan, any other tropical system that's come through here. this has been a worst flooding situation than any of that. ashlei ashleigh. >> all right, chad myers, thank you for that terrific reporting. our thoughts and prayers go out to the people who have been affected by that. >> thank you so very much. >> we also have the other big story we're following. the owners of the l.a. clippers now banned by the nba. next, league owners could be voting on whether to force a

sale of that team. but he could fight back. what exactly is his arsenal? you might be surprised to find out. don sterling, he's got some. will he use it? we'll talk about it next. in the nation, it's not always pretty.

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welcome back to "legal view." clippers owner donald sterling has a very difficult decision to make. does he fight his lifetime ban from the nba and the potential loss of his very lucrative franchise? or does he sell? and avoid a massive legal fight and all the ugly fallout that would undoubtedly come with it? the league's commissioner, adam silver, says he plans to begin the process, the termination process, the procedure, basically, where sterling's ownership could end as soon as possible. here's how that will work, according to the actual nba

constitution and the bylaws. commissioner silver will send sterling a written notification of the sterling procedure. sterling will have five days to offer a written response to that notification. after the nba receives sterling's response, the rest of the nba owners will then be convened and they will all meet within ten days to hold what could be -- what you could consider like a mini trial, complete with witnesses and evidence, testimony. the owners will act as the jury. and if three quarters of them favor a vote in favor of termination, then sterling is out. he'll be forced to sell his franchise. wow. that sounds kind of quick. joining me to talk about the potential legal battle between sterling and the nba, rachel nichols is the host of cnn's "unguarded" and a very good sports reporter, let me just say that. also cnn commentator and defense attorney mel robins and cnn analyst and former callan.

surprisingly, we all thought he would be in conference with all the owners before this public statement, not so much. >> i asked him, have youle lpo the owner, and he said no. he said he talked to a few different owners, that he has some support, but he very specifically didn't go build consensus first, because behind closed doors privately, there are owners who have already expressed concerns about all this. not about the specifics about sterling's case, there's general consensus these are racist comments, they don't want him to continue. the slippery slope, as dallas mavic ares owner mark cuban put it, if we give him the power to push out an ownership change, we could be next. there are people who are concerned about that. >> not just an owner change. he can do that, no matter what. it's right here. for your private comments. >> right, private opinions, that sort of thing. >> that's the slippery thing. the issue with that is they're all concerned. they all have some secrets and

comments. the owner of the orlando magic have made comments a lot people consider homophobic. he's campaigned against rights for gays. he says gay marriage are gay people asking for special privileges. a lot of comments that could be con trued as problematic. you have to figure there's concerns. adam silver didn't do that, he issued the challenge publicly. by doing that, riding the wave of anger -- i think it was his best and boldest move. behind closed doors, he might not have had a chance. but publicly, he can ride that wave of anger. now that he's laid it out the way he did, how are fans and all these individual markets going to feel if their owner, quote, stands with donald sterling or stands with a racist? it may be for different reasons. >> they can take that vote in secret, never have to tell us. if they can't get those three quarters, we'll never know -- >> they can take the vote in secret but, ashleigh, i promise you you'll know -- >> can't -- the whole nba if you

don't like the way the vote came out, could you? >> sure. you could certainly have players on those teams -- all the players who were playing in the games last night did talk amongst themselves and organize a boycott. i want to make this clear, even if the vote is in secret, i promise you that the people who wanted it to get out will make sure it is leaked. >> let's bring in the legal aspect of this next step. because this is really where we're going, folks, that the commissioner made it clear. either he or someone has to initiate the action and then they'll end up in that board room, the 30 of them, and the commissioner. let me read the actual statute we're talking about. call it article 13. i don't know if they call it statute it it's not a court of law by any means. it's a private club and their rules. it reads this if a member or owner does the following, fail or refuse to fulfill its contractual obligations to the organization, members, player, any third party, in such a way as to affect the association or its members adversely.

here's the problem, mel. business is business. when you're conducting business, i can see if you mess up in those respects. but talking to your mistress in the kitchen, how can that be considered business? >> it's considered business because the net effect of him having that conversation was almost 2 dozen sponsors running for the hills, threats of boycotts, fans not knowing what to do. everyone wants to talk about the first amendment in privacy, let's talk about personal responsibility. the only person that is 100% responsible for this entire situation is donald sterling. he's the one that uttered those words. he's the one that was stupid enough to say it to somebody who is presumably saying she's got his permission to tape this stuff. >> mel, no one disagrees with you. it's stupid, vile, ugly. all the other platitudes we've heard about this. all true. but here's the difference. does not say you can't talk dirty with your mystery in your kitchen. >> what it does say -- >> can't do something that has a

negative impact on the nba. here's the other thing i want to point out. here's the court system, right. most of us, when we get in trouble, we get pulled into the courts. when you decide you're going to join a club, the nba, and you're going to sign a contract that's almost 92 pages long and you're going to be governed why their rules, screw the court. you are governed by this and this alone. that's why the language in here about the power of the commissioner and the fact that these decisions are final is so resolute. >> so, paula, you heard me outline the very simplistic court proceeding. i'm only going to call it that because it's the private club's private courtroom. does it really matter if there's evidence and testimony in five days to contemplate, in ten days? i mean, please. if they don't like the guy. >> this constitution, this, you know, 80 panels of legalese, says one important thing. when they hear a case, the members, the owners, the rules of evidence don't apply. anything can be introduced. and they can use any procedure that they want to determine what

to allow an owner to keep his team or to terminate. so all of them have agreed to this. i agree with mel, this is a private club of owners and the only thing they're worried about, frankly, is, hey, could this happen to me. if i said something inappropriate, am i going to lose my $1 billion nba franchise because i was stupid a couple years ago in something that i said. some of the members may be worried about that. on the other hand, this organization, the nba, sells a product. and that product in the form of the l.a. clippers has been tarnished terribly by this open blatant racism of one of the most important owners -- >> last comment, really quick. >> one more legal issue with this. even though he's agreed to those binding rules and if he decides to go sue in court, we all know he wouldn't stand a chance. he could still threaten to sue in court. you've been in business with these guys for 30 years. >> and sued the nba before. >> and arbitration, it's final. >> the point is, he's been in business with these guys for 30

years. he knows all the secrets. he knows where all the bodies are buried. he could say, i'm going to sue you, even though i know i can't win. i'm going to enter into evidence. you guys just wait. >> something tells me this girl right now is going to know the person who initiates the action. like 2:00. rachel nichols, great to have you. mel and paul. remember when mel said something about first amendment and i said baloney, guess what, a lot of people are saying what about your first amendment rights to say whatever you want? hey, folks, you still got 'em. and so does he. but everything else that companies alocompany s comes along with them. we're going to talk about why jail is one thing and people hating you and stopping to buy your product is a whole other thing. that's coming up. oh! the name your price tool! you tell them how much you want to pay, and they help you find a policy that fits your budget. i told you to wear something comfortable! this is a polyester blend! whoa! uh...little help?

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here's another side to the donald sterling controversy that may be getting lost in all the outrage over his, let's face it, really ugly racist remarks. it's the fact that his privacy just might have been invaded when he was recorded. we don't know yet if it's with or without his consent but it appears it might have been without. now his private comments are being made very, very public. dallas mavericks owner mark cuban, by the way, he actually expressed some concern about the whole thing, the precedent it might set if the nba terminated ownership of the clippers.

so joining me to discuss this whole dilemma is cnn commentator mel robins and also first amendment attorney mark rondosa from las vegas who says what happened to sterling is morally and legally wrong. okay, mark, those are fighting words for a lot of people watching this show. you know, legally, not so sure yet. let's just be really clear. nobody has been able to prove undoubtedly there wasn't some kind of consent made by mr. sterling to this recording. let's say for sake of this argument perhaps he didn't know, certainly looks that way. why is it morally wrong he got this comeup tense, morally wrong? >> let's say if he didn't, do we live in a surveillance society? you know, as a society, we all rose up in outrage when the nas was spying on us. and we all looked with sim pale

together withes people who lived in eastern europe under the iron curtain with the stasi watching them all the time. the stress of living under a regime where everywhere you go is recorded, viewed and out for public display or to be used against you, do we really want to live in a so i tie like that? there may not have been a law broken here. if there wasn't two-party consent, a law was broken. right now, we have -- we're living in a world where you can take end matt fointimate photosf and the next day somebody can publish them all over the web. have a private conversation in your kitchen with i don't care if it's your mistress or just your friend, but to think at any moment that can be spread around worldwide and used against you. >> and end your livelihood. >> the program here isn't against that. we don't have a tech knnologica

fix for this. the genie's out of the body. everyone has a camera. everyone can do this. >> let's face it, mel has great opinions about this stuff. it was this. >> i disagree with every one of the thing, he was saying. >> mark made a great point when he wrote in his opinion piece that we all say things in private. and he went on to say this. sometime, they're like incubating moments. >> not when you're 82. >> when you're talking -- i keep saying the kitchen, i'm making that part up. if you're talking to your mistress or lover or friend or wife or child, sometimes these are incubating moments. it's a test marketing place. it's your test marketing place for thoughts. maybe not fully developed thoughts. is it fair -- is it fair to interrupt that process and display it for the world as the final process? as the final result? >> i was very poetic line mark that you wrote. there's certainly things i've

said to my girlfriends or husband i might not want aired on cnn. the truth of the matter is -- >> by the way, then they set you straight after the next glass of wine -- >> it does sound -- he does sound aly the bi lily the bit d rambling on the tape. >> or 80. >> or 80 years old. here's the problem i have, if he consented, it's not illegal. even if it's not illegal, there's a remedy in a different court. when you want to talk about the laws of the morality, the truth of the matter is, i also think about karma. karma's a lady and she can be a real bitch and in this instance, i look to look at the person responsible for the mess and that's donald sterling. he said what he believed. >> here's a great point. >> nobody's censoring donald steriling. >> his incubation process is likely done in his 80s. then there's this, how about the whole body of work? when i say the work, the bad work, mark. this guy -- it's not the first time. he's not been kicked out because of one thing --

>> i guess here's the other thing, ashleigh, mark -- hold on one second -- >> i'm not sticking up for him -- >> -- this issue, mark, because the truth is, if he had sed lesl this stuff to his girlfriend, she could have easily held a press conference. he's saying stuff he's comfortable with. she has right to tell other people he feels this way. there's nothing like a recording. >> last word, mark, real quick. >> correct, she has the right to do that, but what i'm talking about is a broader conversation. this should take us all up. and maybe we don't have a technological way of dealing with this or even a legal way of putting this back in the bottle. but we've got to realize we're now living under constant surveillance as if we were in east germany under the stasi. i'm not saying it's something we should necessarily have sympathy for, but we need to look at how this is going to come back on us. >> maybe we should just all live like we tell our kids to live. 15-year-old, 13-year-old.

my 8-year-old. i'm sure you say this to your 8-year-old. >> my 8-year-old and 6-year-old, yes. >> only say things you wouldn't mind plastered around the school. >> you know, we can't do that anymore. >> yes, you can. >> i think mark's right, you can't. >> just expect the consequences if you're going to be honest about how you feel. we're talking about a guy who had two lives. one he was publicly manufacturing where he intended to be some kind of philanthropist. another one in private where all of a sudden, by the way, he hasn't apologized for. we're not censoring him. it's the nba saying you can't have your opinion, just not in our club. >> anybody who thinks his first amendment rights have been violated i think is dead wrong. no, the first amendment does not protect you from criticism. >> let's make things crystal clear for everybody. first amendment stops the government from coming after you for what you said. >> correct. >> not the consumers who buy your trinkets and your jerseys

and your tickets. so let's be very clear. first amendment, yell it from the mountain top however you deal and then deal with the ramifications. >> protects the boycott, yes. >> exactly. just quickly, the two of you, again if this were an owner who had said or done this for the first time and was squeaky clean otherwise, do you not think this is a tipping point for a lot of bad behavior? do you think he would have been taken to task the way he was having not done the other bad stuff as a foundation? >> i think there's that. i also think he was unremorseful to begin with. >> mark. >> yes, i don't think so. i think he's got such a history of this that, yeah, this might have been the tipping point. >> well, great conversation and thank you to both you. great piece, mark. i enjoyed reading it. i got to say that whole bit about what we say in private is sort of the incubation place. it's our test marketplace for what we think and how we change how we think sometimes. our friends and our families and our close confidents are the people who oftentimes mold how

we end up thinking. i'd like to think by the time i'm 80, 82, i'll have been there by then. mark and mel, thank you both. [ inaudible ] never before the show neverwany the execution that happened last night that was botched, but that led to the death of that man anyway by heart attack, he was given a lethal injection. it didn't go the way it was supposed to. and as you might expect, there was a doctor involved. don't they take a hippocratic oath? dr. gupta will join us about that issue and what those drugs do in sequence to ultimately kill you in the first place. i saw this red, blistery, rash and i felt this horrible pain on one side of my back. i had 16 magic shows to do. i didn't know how i was going to be able to do these shows with this kind of pain that i was in. i told my wife what i had. she went on the internet and said "i think you have shingles."

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want to get back t our top story. an indictment of the so-called

execution cocktail. though many states have taken capital punishment off the books, 32 of them still impose death sentences. lately, they've had to scramble in order to find alternative means to conduct their lethal injections. that's because the european makers of the execution drugs of choice are no longer interested in selling their drugs to us for use to kill people. and here's where i bring in our dr. sanjay gupta in atlanta. sanjay, maybe a lot of people don't know but there is a doctor who is present during lethal executions. usually administering at least that first -- that first drug that renders the condemned unconscious. i'm not sure i understand how it works with the hippocratic oath. i thought that's not allowed. >> this is sticky. there's no two ways about it, ashleigh. it doesn't fit neatly into any kind of, you know, sort of adhering by that oath. the doctors don't always actually administer the drugs. in fact, there's certain laws in

certain states that say they can't put in the needle or administer drugs but they are present, sometimes to declare someone dead. that's what the doctor's role is. many times there's doctors or nurses who are also prison employees who are part of this. i can tell you, we oftentimes don't know who these people are. they don't self-identify as you might guess for obvious reasons. so you're right, it is a sticky situation. you do have medically trained professionals who train to help people and prolong life who are now in this really uncomfortable role. >> so, sanjay, the first drug we were just talking about, and you'll have to correct me, because you're much better at this, is midazolam, and that causes the unconsciousness. next up is the vecoroium bromide, is that correct? >> yes, vecoronium bromide. >> what happens? >> that's a paraly titic. it paralyzes the muscles. it paralyzes the diaphragm, which is a large muscle as well.

when the diaphragm is paralyzed, one can't breathe. >> the final drug, the potassium chloride. it effectively finishes the job? >> it stops the heart. it causes a chemical imbalance in the body and specifically in the blood that's around the heart that essentially causes the heart to go into cardiac arrest. >> none of that -- look, i don't know a whole lot about taking those drugs. not one of them seems to be terribly painful to the paint that it has been described in the execution last night. they called it looking like torture. what part of that or what combination or problem with those drugs and the cocktail of those causes the intense pain? >> if things went the way they're supposed to go, you're right, there shouldn't be pain. the first drug is supposed to render someone essentially unaware. that didn't seem to happen in this case. if you give someone a paralytic, their diaphragm is still no longer able to move but they're still awake. that can be disconcerting,

essentially, you're suffocating, unable to take in eth bribreath despite the fact you're awake. so, again, if the process worked the way it's supposed to work, all three drugs did what they were supposed to do, that shouldn't happen, but that doesn't look like the case here. >> i understand when companies or -- for moral reasons or for the europeans who won't even extradite because of the death penalty when it comes to murder cases, but why isn't it -- why are they not able to mimic the drugs that used to be easily readily available? why can't they mimic them with others? why are we having these problems all of a sudden when they go to the cocktails? >> it's a great question. since my first year of medical school, ashleigh, there's a philosophical tension around that very issue. people create these medications. they want them to be used for life sustaining, life preserving sort of measures. to create another set of drugs, mimic drugs, perhaps a company could do that for the sole purpose of these executions. it's not a role anyone's

comfortable with, frankly. i think that's part of the challenge. medical establishments, the ama's not -- they prefer their doctors don't -- don't be involved in these processes. it's a sticky ethical situation. i will say, though, in this particular case, the vein that -- where the medications were going through, it burst open. so instead of the medications going into the blood, they were going into the soft tissue of the arm. you could still absorb some but you just don't know how much. >> good point. >> that could throw the whole thing awry. >> i think that's a huge point you just made. the authorities, anyway, of course, they pulled the curtain so we couldn't witness this, but the authorities say this was a vein issue, not a drug issue. until we have a very thorough investigation into this, you know, how can anyone be sure. there's so many litigation issues that could come up as well. dr. gupta i could talk to you forever, thank you so much. dr. sanjay gupta with all the answers. another breaking story, it's the only reason i would ever end

an interview with sanjay gupta, but you probably remember the reigning heisman trophy win, jameis winston, florida state, he was cleared of rape allegations, but this is breaking just now, apparently he is in trouble again. and you might be really surprised at what is alleged to have happened. ♪ (woman) this place has got really good chocolate shakes. (growls) (man) that's a good look for you.

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today, victims of the civil war broiling in syria. it happened in aleppo. witnesses say the military dropped barrel bombs on an elementary school filled with children at the time. parts of aleppo are under control of the rebels who are rising up against syria's government. that former teacher who served a month behind bars for raping a 14-year-old student is going to be resentenced. the montana supreme court has overturned the sentence. saying a whole new judge needs to do the resentencing. the original judge, todd baugh, suggested the teenage victim shared responsibility for her rape because he believes she somehow had control over the situation. can't ask the teenage girl, though, because she committed suicide before the case went to trial. and the top college football player in the nation right now is in big trouble again. jameis winston was cited last night in tallahassee, florida,

for shoplifting. a source tells cnn the heisman trophy winner allegedly walked out of a group ofry sto ra grofe near the florida state campus with an order of crab legs he didn't pay for. jameis winston was not booked in the incident. thanks for watching, everybody. stay tuned now because my colleague wolf takes over. right now, the debate over cruel and unusual punishment is back in the spotlight after an execution by lethal injection goes horribly wrong. we'll speak with the journalist who saw it all happen. also right now, clippers owner donald sterling has been banned by the nba for life, but there are still legal and business issues that need to be resolved. and right now, cnn is giving an insight look into the technology an australian company used to find what could be wreckage, potentially at least they say, from mallaaysia airlis flight 370.